Feb 03 2009

Managing guilt when you are depressed

14 Responses to “Managing guilt when you are depressed”

1. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:37 am

   Dear Graeme

   As a trained Counsellor and sufferer of depression myself, I know only too well what Jenny is describing. I would agree with most of your response, also. My experience, and that of those I counsel, seems to be the difficulty/block we have with the reality of ‘being gentle with yourself’.What does that mean? I usually frame it as ‘be kind to yourself’, and ‘limit your expectations’, and we talk specifically about how that can happen.

   Another strategy you talk about which I find particularly useful in this regard is ‘just for today’; ‘what I have done/am doing is good enough’, without even going to ‘I’ll do it tomorrow’ (that can lead to further depression when you don’t do it ‘tomorrow’). For me, checking my emails can be impossible when I am down; so I give myself permission not to do that ‘just for today’. Days may go past before I feel up to it, but eventually I do it - and nothing drastic has ever transpired as a result of my inaction!

   Behind guilt, there is usually anger, so it can be helpful to look at where the anger belongs. That is where counselling can be so effective; usually the person is unaware that they carry a lot of anger.

   Distraction, or focussing on something else, as you say, is a great tool to practise. Because isolation is such a big part of depression, talking to even one person a day, can be immensely uplifting (I talked to a stranger yesterday in a coffee shop, had coffee with him, and felt incredibly uplifted as a result!) Personally, I choose not to make a plan, because I may become discouraged if I don’t meet my goals. That’s not to say it is not a great idea. I just find that accepting where I am (after years in therapy) is my best ally!

   Cheers, and I trust my thoughts are of use, Jan (Sydney).

2. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:39 am

   Hi Graeme

   I am happy to respond to your Handling Guilt subject. I have included comments from my daughter who has major depression and PTSD, as well as my own comments. As you will see, we both agree that the guilt factor is a major component of depression.

   Hey mum,

   I feel heaps of guilt all the time and it’s one of those things I tend to beat myself up with. Guilt for being lazy, guilt for feeling selfish, guilt for not getting everything done, guilt for being fat, guilt for not being perfect…. list goes on. What I’m becoming more aware of is that feeling guilty is just another excuse for not liking myself, and it’s usually the result of putting everything ahead of myself. Example: “don’t have time to exercise because I need to walk the dogs otherwise they’ll be sad and they’re more important - then I can be miserable about being unfit and wallow in some self depreciation thinking.”

   Guilt is just part of the whole self hate thing, and it’s only something you can manage if you actively look after (nurture) yourself.

   Hi KK - I agree with everything you said. Whilst I have not had the “guilts” to the extent that you have, I am feeling so much better now that I am making time for myself and getting to the gym and doing the exercise I need to do to improve my fitness, improve my leg muscles again, try to eliminate all the other painful areas by stimulating the bloodflow to all the bits! Still feeling guilty about the house not being clean enough, watching too much TV, not getting my quilting done . . . I mentally shut my eyes to it, but am working towards improvements!

   However, I did get up and finish my ironing basket at 6.00 am this morning! Woke at 5.00 am and was wide awake so turned on Sunrise and finished my basket for the first time in two weeks.

   Thanks for the opportunity to continue to be part of your program.

   Sue

3. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:40 am

   dear Graeme

   I used to belt my self up regularly.. But then I thought back on all the things I used to do over and beyond what I had to do.. Which in the long run lead me to an emotional burn out and depression and anxiety. My husband has been able to obtain the carers allowance which give us a little more income. He also feel that by him taking on the role as my carer he is doing something positive and giving back, and it is a way that he can show his love. So now when I see things that I can not do because of arthritus and depression and anxiety I smile and thing how he feels worthwhile and our income is incressed just a tad.. This takes away the guilt. Now the only place I belt my self up is in the car with the seat belt..

   As far as each day I do have a plan for the day the week the month and so on but it is a rough plan and is very flexable so as I can do things but have an escape plan if needed. This morning I wanted to go to a group which I felt was important to go to but I took it one step at a time.. although I had to battle my anxiety I did get to the front door and out to the car then to the place and up the stairs into the meeting room and paticipated, and home again so I give my self a star.. The venue where the meeting was held was a place where I had experienced some unpleasant things some time ago and the evening before I could not get my self to sleep as I was reliving in my mind over and over what had happened before. But not only did I get to the meeting I went some where which had not had pleasant memories and the subject was mental health..

   A question I have in regards to GROW method it seems that the intent of GROW is to blame the person who is suffering mental illness, for thier condition. An if one needs to continue with medication then it is their fault for not following the program. I would like to know any other person take on GROW as I went along for about 3 month till finally I could not go any longer because I did not feel any of the 12 steps of decline or recovery applied to me as I am as close to God now and have been all the way through. In fact I know that God is leading me day by day, and He does not blame me..

   Any Comment would be appreciated..

   yours trully

   Christine

4. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:41 am

   Hi Graeme,

   Thanks for the email and hope all is well with you.

   I think the most important thing it just look at one day at a time for the walking. If it can’t be done today, try and do it tomorrow. And yes, I agree, walking to the front gate DOES count as a walk. It is hard enough just to get out of bed so if Jenny can get to the front gate she has done really, really well and should congratulate herself, instead of feeling guilty.

   Jane.

5. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:42 am

   Hi Graeme,

   Thanks for that. I’m really impressed!!!

   I think you covered everything really well in your response and you’ve got some really positive feedback there.

   I just pulled out a sheet I found by accident the other day from some work I did with a clinical psych.a couple of years ago. I was having HUGE problems with lack of motivation, inactivity and subsequent guilt. She wrote down a few things to help with kick-starting my daily schedule. People who are severely depressed may not be up for this but I found it useful. It looks like this:

   Activities Scheduling

   Goals: 1) to do SOME things

   2) to avoid doing too much

   On your list, there are 3 categories:

   1) “must do” (keep to a minimal level)

   2) “would like to do”

   3) “extras”

   REMEMBER TO INCLUDE PLEASANT ACTIVITIES!!!!!

   At the end of the day/week, review.

   Something else that comes to mind is to remember something we’ve spoken about at Grow. If you had a broken leg you wouldn’t be expected to run in the 100m. With depression, it’s a very real illness but not necessarily visible, and requires care, support and lots of TLC. Don’t beat yourself up when you’re already carrying an injury!!!

   Thanks for inviting my input, Graeme.

   Take care,

   Kylie

6. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:43 am

   I agree with you Graeme. Look at the positive aspects. Acknowledge that Depression is an illness and try not to take all the ownership for all the things you can’t do. Lay those on the illness and take responsibility for all the positive things you do to combat the depression. Forgive yourself for beating yourself up. Feeling guilty can also be a positive sign of depression lifting a little as when we are in deep depression we don’t care about anything! Take one day at a time and if that is too hard one minute at a time and if that is too hard one second at a time. Remember only sensitive people feel guilty which means you care about others so start caring for yourself and forgive yourself as well. You are allowed to, you are working hard and I commend you on your efforts. Hey! You got out of bed, that in itself is a wonderful achievement. You got dressed. Well done!!!You went for a walk. FANTASTIC!!!!

   Heather

7. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:45 am

   Dear Graeme

   I believe guilt that results from perceived personal failure is a significantly causative factor in a person becoming depressed - at least it was for me … failure in my parenting goals, failure to protect my adult children from relationship hurts, failure to assist aging and widowed parents adequately, failure to please my spouse, failure to do sufficient housework, failure to give up smoking, failure to be at everyone’s beck and call … the list can go on.

   To overcome guilt, I needed to assess WHO it was that decided that I was supposed to do all the undone things that I felt guilty about … and a reality check of what was within my power to accomplish helped me overcome guilt too.

   A lot of what I expected of myself came from social and cultural ‘norms’
   that I had accepted unquestionably e.g. women are supposed to do the housework (regardless of working outside the home), children (regardless of
   age) are supposed to please their parents, wives are supposed to meet their husbands needs, etc.

   On pondering the ‘rules of life’ that I had failed so miserably to achieve, I realised that (a) they were not realistic or practical ‘rules’, (b) they were not MY personally chosen ‘rules’, and (c) I could actually make an adult decision to choose to obey them - or not. I learnt that I had the right to choose which ‘rules and responsibilities’ I wanted to achieve …
   and to determine which ‘rules’ I was actually capable of achieving.

   A lot of what I had expected of myself was not within my locus of control so I had to accept that I am not God and can not do all that I would like to be able to do i.e. I needed to reduce my unrealistic expectations of myself.

   In my experience, guilt is a very wearying emotion and seriously adds to, if not causes, depression. A large part of overcoming my depression was achieved by concentrating mainly on what I like to do, what I enjoy doing, and recognising that I have every right to enjoy my life i.e. my life is not all about pleasing other people. I am allowed to love/please me first before I need to love/please anyone else.

   My advice to your participant would be to decide what she actually wants to do in her life … what does she enjoy doing (or did enjoy doing prior to her depression) … and to just do those things that she loves (one nice thing every day) … to pamper herself and to treat herself well.

   Sincerely
   Sue QLD

8. # graemecowanon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:52 am

   These comments have been fantastic. Best of all see Jenny’s comment below.

9. # Graemeon 09 Feb 2009 at 11:55 am

   Hi Graeme ~ and what other word is there but *WOW* for all the responses to the guilt question !
   Thank you for sending them all to me. I do check out your blog on the website from time to time, so hope everyone is able to copy their responses there.
   They certainly are helpful and for many people.

   I have forwarded the information about the seminar to quite a few people. Already I have had positive feedback from one friend who will definitely register & several who are thinking seriously of doing so. I put my own little bit in about how wonderful & positive the seminar was for me, especially after starting to work on the 7 strategies. Do you know how much better I feel than 4 or 5 weeks ago ?

   Thanks again Graeme. I will email with that guilt info. asap

   Happiness & Light,
   Jenny

10. # Graemeon 11 Feb 2009 at 1:00 pm

    Hi, Graeme,

    In life’s usually timely fashion, I was forced to face one aspect of the guilt cycle the day before I read Jenny’s questions about guilt. Though I am fortunate enough to have only have physical limitations with only mild times of feeling down, I do often feel guilty for all those things I am forced to leave for my longsuffering and very willing husbabd to do. I still find it hard to ask him for help but find it harder to ask my son (who’ has Asberger’s syndrome and Type 1 diabetes) for help. Harder still to ask my adult children to help out - after all, they have their own families to help

    This week, I had medical appointments and, as my daughter had need for my car, I ‘allowed’ her to drive me, feeling no guilt because I had already loaned my car to her. And we had the best of times! One reason, I realised, was because she felt so good about helping me!

    What had I been thinking, all those times I said, “No, I’ll be right,” when I clearly wasn’t?

    In doing so, I had denied my own kids the joy of giving.

    I remembered back to the time when I was a young pastor’s wife. I’d complained that I hated having to accept help and gifts from people I barely knew. My new husband told me I needed to stop being so proud, explaining that these people may have no one else to minister to and, by saying no or accepting begrudgingly, I was taking away from their ministry.

    “You can’t only give to others, you have to accept from them, too.”

    I’d forgotton those wise words until I saw my daughter’s joy when I accepted her help!

    Other things I have learnt is that willing helpers often do things differently from the way I envisage a chore should be done and have learnt to turn a blind eye to dusty corners and smile my thanks when my husband cleans ‘his way’. I have also stopped apologising for having to pace myself and to start over when I have had an interruption (caused by pain and/or fatigue) where once I would have berated myself for ‘failing again!’ When I’m battling to stay on top, I push thoughts of guilt to one side - and have learnt it is better to use my energies elsewhere. And, on those days when feelings of guilt refuse to go away, I try to find one thing I can do, one person I can encourage. Baby steps! My son finds it nigh impossible to go out to help others but many people enjoy his website so he has found a way to give when, to someone who doesn’t know him, he only seems to accept help.

    Graeme, I am rambling as one thought tumbles to another, but please let Jenny know that I admire her for speaking up and becoming a voice for all of us who feel guilty, whether with good reason or through no fault of our own.

    Bless you,

    Kaye

11. # Janniceon 12 Feb 2009 at 7:46 am

    HI Graeme,

    I don’t have much time to add this comment this morning, I’ve got to rush off to work.

    On the other side of the fence, I have often felt guilty for staying in a relationship and putting my children through the ups and downs. There have been times when our lives were in complete turmoil. The verbal violence is enough to break your heart and your spirit.

    It’s been a hard road to know which way to go whether to stay or go.

    My hubby is a good man and I have struggled with this situation, how could I take the children away from him or leave him alone with his depression, at times I didn’t know if he was safe or whether it was safe to leave the children alone with him. He had commented that he wanted to TOP himself, I had no idea what that meant. I spent many months not leaving the children alone with him. I eventually said something to him and he said he was not feeling like that any more.

    His depression has lasted for a very long time, over 15 years, he seems to be getting better at times, then the irrational stuff comes back into our lives and I am gobsmacked once again.

    I will say, this stuff was making me a basket case but I have actually become a stronger person after it all.

    I find it difficult to help him as he will take medication then stop taking it and then he won’t talk about it or tells me I need to take the pills because I am the one who is depressed. At times it’s still a little confusing.

    It’s hard for someone like me who has had nothing as a young person/child to understand why someone who has 4 beautiful healthy lovely children, a wife who really loves him, a good job, a roof over his head and food on the table can be depressed. I feel like we have to appreciate the good things in life and what we have and have achieved, but I understand that we don’t all think this way.

    Anyway, thanks for writing your books Graeme, I was chatting to a person one night who has become a good friend about my hubby and she was reading your book and just happened to be a life line counsellor. I believe people come into our lives for a reason and she was here to help me by getting me to read your books and to help me through this.

    It must have taken you great courage to face your depression and then to help others. I Thank you!!! Jannice

12. # Lynette Mendeon 14 Feb 2009 at 4:51 am

    Dear Graeme,
    I’ve been going through the recovery process out of depression for 16months now. I have my good days and my bad days. One thing i have learned to do in my bad days is to remind myself that it’s my illness that makes it a bad day. Not me who’s bad for not doing what i needed to do, but didn’t, or what i wanted to do, and didn’t, and i remind myself that there is tomorrow to do it in. It’s not a failure, and i remind myself of how far i am coming and praise myself for what i have achieved and the courage it has taken to achieve the improvements which i am showing over the time.

    I have once been a carer and i came to the realization that i needed to apply the same caring techniques i learned as a carer to myself, UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. During the pits of my depression i blamed God for letting me down over the years. I was bewildered by what i thought were His broken promisses to me. Finally i reconcilled myself to the fact that He is God and i am me and i gave Him an easier time and let off on Him. I put His promises back in his control and did not make expectations on Him. Well that has freed me from my own as a result. We both get on alot better these days, as i have learned to show Him unconditional love too, i found i am more able to love myself too.

    I was homeless (going from friends place to friends place) and i had no information available about depression. After contemplating and activating a plan to end my own life, i caught myself, through the tablets out, and stopped writting my goodbye letter, took another look at how my life was going and decided that movement in my life was off utmost importance! It did not matter whether it would work out or not, or whether i would fail, all that mattered to me was that i am trying. Even the smallest attempts i would considere a great achievement. The truth is that most of my goals have failed, and i seemed to come full circle in my attempts, but nothing stays the same, and what i have gained in the process of trying alone has been my reward. As i took stock of how i felt back then to how i feel now i realise how far i have come, as i take stock of my goals 9 out of 10 i did not complete or i did not achive, but i did give it a thoroughly good try. I do things now for enjoyment, that’s enough reward, and if i finally achieve my goals (I’m studying) that would be the icing on the cake.

    I’ve only just this week came along your book ‘Back from the Brink’ and it has really encouraged me to see that i am on the right path and i am doing the things that will keep me going toward recovery.

    Bless you Graeme in the your work you are doing.

    Lynette

13. # Jameson 06 Mar 2009 at 10:37 am

    hi Christine, I have been going to grow for about six years now for help with my depression. One of the grow wisdoms says ” dont let objectionable people/things put you off beautiful things” or words to that effect. I too have many problems with the way grow operates and the way some of the program is written. I take what I think is relevant to me and what I know works for me and I leave what doesnt. I persisted despite my objections to the parts of the program and method and I am so glad I did. I am well on the way to moving out of my depression, have returned to study and am about to begin work as an outreach worker for people with mental health issues. This I would not have been able to do if I had not persisted with grow. The important thing to do is to find a supportive group which works with flexibility in regards to the program and method. You can still have your own beliefs and yet still work within the program and method.You just need to take what works for you, challenge yourself now and then and leave what doesnt. Hope this helps a little and good luck with your jouney !!!

14. # Amyon 16 Mar 2009 at 1:34 am

    Right now I can’t get the “chatterbox” in my head  that is constantly telling me I SHOULD be able to do more than I’m doing
    - especially now that I have relapsed after a recent good patch where I was able to push myself to achieve more of my own goals and try to participate with other people in social groups and classes etc
    I feel so wretched because I can’t meet basic expectations at present and it is such an effort to pretend that you’re OK all the time
    I know I have to keep on hanging in there until the tide turns but it’s bloody hard!

    Other people get sick of someone who seems to send mixed messages about whether they want to /or are able to commit to an activity. Sometimes I have agreed to do something lately and have had to cancel as I’ve been too unwell to go at the last minute . There are not too many people that will keep contacting you if this happens too often and it’s not always possible to reveal the real reason you are unwell

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