Jul 12 2009
Depression may be linked to an inability to let go of unrealistic goals
Article in The Economist June 27th, 2009 - Page 89
A friend recently made me aware of a very interesting article in The Economist.
The hypothesis
Randolph Nesse, a psychologist and researcher in evolutionary medicine at the University of Michigan, likens the relationship between mild and clinical depression to the one between normal to chronic pain.
Dr Nesse’s hypothesis is that, as pain stops you doing damaging physical things, so low mood stops you doing damaging mental ones - in particular, in particlar pursuing unreachable goals. He asserts, that pursuing such goals is a waste of energy and resources. Therefore he argues, there is likely to be an evolved mechanism that recognizes certain goals as unattainable and inhibits their pursuit - and he believes low mood is at least part of that mechanism.
The evidence
In a study published recently by Carsten Wrosch from Concordia University in Montreal he studied depression in teenage girls. They measured the “goal adjustment strategies” of 97 girls aged 15-19 years over the course of 19 months. They asked participants about their ability to disengage with unattainable goals and re-engage with new goals. They also asked them about a range of symptoms associated with depression, and changed over the course of the study.
Study findings
Their conclusion was that those that experienced mild depressive symptoms could indeed disengage from unattainable goals. It also found a remarkable corollary:those women who could disengage from the unattainable, proved less likely to suffer more serious depression in the long run.
Mild depressive symptoms can therefore be seen as a natural part of dealing with failure in young adulthood.
My take on this theory
As I have highlighted many times before, it is so difficult to make conclusive statements about “depression” as the term covers a multitude of conditions. Having said that, my gut tells me that there is something to this theory. I guess that comes from my own personal experience. On each occasion I have experienced a severe depressive episode, it has often been close to a downturn in the economy. I formally worked in recruitment, which is an industry very closely linked to the health of the economy and is also very accountable.
When I began missing my budgets, rather than blaming the economy, I tended to blame myself for not working hard enough. This also would explain why those with perfectionist personality traits are so vulnerable to depression - you can never achieve the goal of perfection.
It also reinforces my belief that when you are depressed you should set “whisker goals”. These are small attainment goals that put you on a path of “wins” that often have a positive impact on self esteem. It is also essential to celebrate these small wins so your brain knows that it is doing something right. A small celebration could be buying yourself a coffee, gelato, chocolate or your favourite magazine.
Your thoughts please?
I would be very interested for others to share their opinion regarding this theory. Please do so by responding to this blog.
Kind Regards
Graeme
It is interesting to know about this article. I have been living with a partner with depression. He is actually very smart and is talented in certain areas. But he chooses projects that are not suited for his strengths, hence he feels like a failure and it is a catch-22 situation. Perfectionists also get caught in the same merry-go-round. Whatever they attempt, the bar is so high that they will seldom reach their goal.
Can the hypothesis be extended to testing perfectionists?
re Depression may be linked to an inability to let go of unrealistic goals
Maybe, but for me, when depressed, the idea of setting ‘baby’ goals was an insult & not acceptable, and yet I also was stuck between what I had & what I didn’t have.
I don’t know whether to be told let go of unrealistic goals when you’re in the middle of a crisis would actually be helpful. What helps is so individual, it seems to me, and sometimes what does’t help at one point can then become helpful at a different time.
I totally agree with what you have just said. As I have said to you in previous emails, it is my husband with very, very severe depression and I notice when he achieves small goals, eg; changing a light bulb, cleaning the glass door, getting out of bed in the morning…small (but that’s all that he can do at the moment)…he feels as if he has contributed somthing and passed not failed and I’m hoping with all these little steps he will slowly be able to tackle more and then life…
Thanks again for this information.
Regards Kerrie
I tend to partially agree and disagree with this theory. I for one find it near impossible to set and work towards goals when feeling depressed, however when I’m feeling more positive I can set goals. Once I have set goals I work towards them overcoming most obstacles with ease and no worries, however the problems arise mostly from either involvement of other people or illogical red tape set by people in ‘power’.
The majority of the times when I feel low are simply because of disappointment and being let down through no fault of my own - possibly because I strive for perfection and cannot accept when the obvious logic points at failure but nobody is willing to listen or discuss. Whether it be through major business decisions, basic day to day operations, or just not being called by someone failing to come to a meeting - I do not see these as personal attacks, but rather just feel extreme disappointment.
So as I said - it’s partly correct - seeking and failing to get the unrealistic goal of perfection can help to make one feel disappointment, however the disappointment is generally not from the result of ones own efforts, but the failure of others to meet expectations. Managing one expectations of others is a difficult task and I find myself unable to fully trust or rely on anyone.
Hi Graeme,
A very interesting take on the cause of depression. It would be interesting to explore how it was determined and who determined what was “an unattainable goal” for the young subjects in this study. Depression may have influenced the belief that something was unattainable. If a person really and truly believed in the goals they set themselves, then there would be no way that the body could start to manufacture or not manufacture the chemicals involved in depression or affect the process of neurotransmittance.
Hello Graeme
I have had a bit of a hunch theory about this for some time. And I find it linked to grief/loss responses. I think the mind actually goes into survival mode while dealing with issues that are taking up a lot of mental energy and so the system runs slow or may even seem to stop - perhaps it does in extreme cases. Anyway I think we could also put a positive spin on it: depression is actually a protective device in the mind which prevents overload damage until the thinking/cognitive system has made the necessary adjustments. Its just a simple reframe which may lead to saying something like - you are working perfectly (being depressed over “x”, take some time, do some caring for yourself and attend to what it takes to heal the hurt/distress you are living in.
Kind regards
Jim
Dear Graeme,
I also wonder about this theory, as my husband has been trying to make a living Trading Shares for about 10 years & sees this as his only avenue for a living. Even though his Depression was triggered by a work incident. Have mentioned this to his Physichiatrist but he just shrugged his shoulders!
Reguards Gloria
Hi Graeme,
I’m unsure what the term “mild depressive symtoms” means. In regard to the study, because goals were unnatainable could not this be a simple reacton of disappointment or rejection that could lead to emotionmal flatness for a short time? I guess I’m asking does a clinical diagnosis need to be applied to natural reactions to events that happen in ones life from time to time. Maybe it comes down to the degree of disappointment, the sensitivity of each individual.
Regards Helen.
Hi Graeme,
Yes I think this is a useful theory which may explain some of the reasons some people may experience mild depression, particularly when linked with young women and some of the expectations they experience via the media. The distinction between unattainable goals and realistic goals is the crucial issue. What many people may view as unattainable or irrelevant, others will apply very high levels of motivation and personal aspirations to overcome what seem insurmountable challenges in life and succeed. The notion of resilience is relevant in how people cope with disappointmet or initial failure. Self esteem and confidence which are always an issue in depression are usually assisted by people stretching themselves to achieve somelthing which is a challenge for them (no matter how small at the time). However, this needs to continue and grow so that they develop pride in their achievements and their efforts throughout life and can protect themselves better against depression.
I am not sure where this converation will lead but did feel compelled to comment. 8 years ago I called myself a Joyologist, deciding in that space I would like to create Joyology Departments in Hospitals, right alongside Haematology, Radiology, Pathology. The moment came as an epiphany following a series of major losses including my home and business in Australia, owing $80,000, moving to NZ to start again, experiencing 10 car accidents in first 18 months here, then losing my partner of 20 years when he left having found someone else. I had cancer and 2 lots of surgery. I lost my first child, a daughter and experienced the grief of beng part of a family who no longer spoke.
In my worst moment mydoctor said you need to be medicated. I said i did not want to take that path and asked her to help me deal with my grief. The journey began when i looked for another way. Humour and positive psychology became that way, and i have built a profile and supported some 5000 people to transform their lives using my methodolgy.
To this day there is only one Joyology Dept where I did 2 pilot programs using humour, and the multiple intelligences to transform the lives of 29 residents. Patch Adams whom i toured with says ” Find yourself a goal so big you can’t possibly hope to achieve it and then set off and enjoy the journey” . His gesundehit is not complete. We never get IT done. It is about the journey. I think joy is being able to recognise and experience the full gamut of emotions .
the work of prof martin Seligman is key in this conversation. i am keen to chat some more but wonder of i have written too many lines…smiles!!…I am about to find out!!
Pat
additional…for me now my understanding is “grief is having nowhere to place your love….” the journey then is back to soul purpose and finding your joy….irrespective of current circumstances…. my speaking and my art are my 2 greatest joys….and even in a downturn..my own or the worlds… i find ways to be with them as often as possible….i know myself so well now…my signature strengths bring me joy in application….
I wish you all peace and joy…it is attainable…Pat
Hi Graeme
My feedback is as follows
1) Depression is a very complex illness
2) How does one defines unrealistic goals? What is unrealistic goal to one person may be realistic to another. So, discernment is important here to distinguish the realistic from the unrealistic
3) I think there is some truth that ‘perfectionists are more prone to depression’ or ‘depression is found in many perfectionists’. So, if this is true, then it certainly gives weight to the hypothesis that ‘depression may be linked to the inability to let go of unrealistic goals’
4) Our ability to let go (in general) is important to our mental health. Our ability to let go of emotional hurts, disappointments, death of a loved one, separation from loved ones etc is important as it provides us with the ability to bounce back from each crisis, which happens to all of us.
5) To sum up, our ability to “let go of what needs to go” will put us on the pathway to a healthy mental well being.
Peace
Grace
Hi Graeme,
This touches on the issue my fella has, even seeking help is a goal he won’t try for because he’s too tied up with feeling ripped off by the universe because he can’t have his ‘pie in the sky’.
What I think he & some others don’t do is break the big ‘unattainable’ goal down into do-able steps (that’s do-able in hard yards though!), like (to use the metaphor): find a good ‘pie’ recipe; accumulate the ingredients; build a scaffold (while baking the pie); then take the pie up the scaffold and fling it into the aethyr.
I say that having done the impossible not a few times in my life, and each time it has been a case of needing to slog on to the next step and eventually achieve the goal that would have been impossible had I decided it was only do-able in one fell swoop.
I have had severe disabling reactive depression and got out by getting to one do-able goal at a time, putting aside anything that made me feel worse because it seemed too hard and focusing on what seemed joyously achievable. the good feeling from the small goals soon counteracts the big black dog. persverance, humour, tenacity, and sheer bloody-mindedness are allies!
Thanks for the article and for all the great tips and advice you share.
Best wishes
willow (rural NSW)
My take on this hypothesis is that it just does not work.. We as human beings against all odds can and will get passed many obsticals within our life journeys. Pain or no pain many people have over come and gone way further than anyone could ever imagine. Some people do have low threshhold to pain and yet others will find that pain is just part of the journey of life.
So too with depression.. yes it is a very common occurance and most people will at different point in their live suffer being depressed. But for one to have the continual battle with depression can not be measured in this way. I wonder how many successful people at the very pinical of their careers suffer greatly with depression and anxiety issues which eventualy robs them of where they have built.
One can have quite high selfesteem and yet feel deep depression. We are by far too complicated human beings to be judged in this way. Yes setting realistic goals is certainly a key to maintaining a health mental attitued. At the age I am now I know the limitation which will not alway allow me to accomplish what I would once feel just part of a day.
Whether or not we disingage with goals certainly is not a measure of how we will cope with bouts of mental ill health. Even selfesteem and success will not stop one from dropping into a pit of depression. Our resiliance can be helpful in allowing us to climb our way out of the darkness.
His equation simply s lopsided and meaningless.
regards Chris
Hi Graeme and everyone,
I found that using ‘baby steps’ worked extremely well for me in overcoming depressive symptoms. While reaching for the unattainable deepened my low mood, accepting that goals could be attained if I didn’t set my standards so high eventually lightened my symptoms.
].
While I do consider myself to be a bit of a perfectionist ( or is that OCD ! ), I did not find it demeaning to lower my expectations of myself, as someone else has suggested may be the case. The opposite was true actually ~ even though the steps I was achieving were tiny in many ways, they were in fact monumental, and led to bigger and bigger achievements….which led to a much improved mood. By taking those tiny steps, I eventually made my way back to work ( part-time ) and am now living a helathier, happier life.
It is obviously an individual thing, but I honestly believe that setting more realistic goals is absolutley beneficial. Why aim for a 30 minute walk when you can’t make it out of bed ? Instead aim to get out of bed and congratulate yourself on that achievement. next, aim to walk to the front gate, or to just collect the mail….exercise does not have to be a session at the gym [ although who knows where that initial getting out of bed will lead to
My views are based upon my own experience, and have certainly helped in my overcoming the most severe bout of depression I have experienced thus far. Whilst I have had LONGER depressive episodes, this one I believe was cut shorter because I followed the belief that achieving small steps was the way to good mental health.
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this issue Graeme.
Take care, Kathy
I’m 45; I first had a bout of depression in ‘74 at the age of 9, then ‘79, ‘85-’89, ‘96-’98, ‘00-01 & now ‘06 to present. Each time a different trigger for it, from change of diet to work stress to breakup of a relationship to a really bad jet lag from an overseas trip. Sometimes no discernable trigger at all. Ive tried all sorts of things to recover & it turns out it’s a different thing that helps me each time. Eg; exercise has really helped before but not this time. I ‘laughed’ my way out in ‘88-89 [similar to Pat A.] & was convinced I would never suffer again but I was wrong. So there’s no set formula but I belive theres somethig in this research.
So Nesse ‘likens the relationship between mild and clinical depression to the one between normal to chronic pain.’ He explains the usefulness of normal pain and low mood, but there is no ‘evolutionary’ explanation for chronic pain or clinical depression here perhaps apart from Jim who believes: ” depression is actually a protective device in the mind which prevents overload damage until the thinking/cognitive system has made the necessary adjustments.”
I’m very interested in this ‘evolutionary medicine’ line of thinking; it often helps me when I have a fever to remind myself that my body is doing this to fight the virus/infection in my body. If I could hang depression on a similar hook it could help me. Are there any other links to his or similar research?
By the way, this is the most helpful discussion I’ve seen on depression on the Australian web as long as I can remember. I’ve given up on depressionet; I dont want to login to discuss trivial things, I want to get better. Good on you for facilitating these articles/discussions!
This hypothesis the Professor is speaking of doesn’t take into account the genetic role of brain chemical imbalance nor the stresses of chronic illness such as diabetes which my psychiatrist believes is very closely linked to depression. They don’t understand the correlation of this but there is strong evidence that it exists.
What he is saying about reaching unattainable goals is only part of the complexity of depression.
I think sometimes that people confuse low mood which is experienced by most people at one time or other in their lives due to hurt, loss, grief or rejection and the like with deep clinical depression. For a long time I have been working on “baby steps” but the depth of the depression doesn’t seem to change.
Sometimes the “baby step” can be as small as getting out of bed or taking a shower and the like.
At the moment I’m giving myself permission to work on the computer etc during the morning and just chilling out in the afternoon reading or watching a DVD in my beautiful sunny lounge room. A lot of me not being able to attain goals is caused by my partner because he’s such a doer and his expectations of me or anyone for that matter is very high. A lot of my non self belief is a result of my family of origin and the messages which I perceived whilst growing up.
As for the hypotheses relating to pain being a mechanism to stop a human from reaching a goal, when thinking of the pain experienced in childbirth, that pain is the positive force in the delivery of the baby. If there were any substance to this hypotheses I would think that would have stop women from the birthing experience.
We each have to find the way through the maze of our life journey.
Hi, Graeme I think it has some merit in what the hypotheses is linked to thinking and struggle to achieve unrealistic goals self estem non family support ive personly had no support from family and am struggling on my own
Hi Everyone,
Thank you for your comments. Whilst it is very hard to generalize about about depression it seems that many people thought there is something to this theory with some doubters. Quite a few people have asked for more information about whisker goals so I attach a link to the first article I read about the concept:
http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/133/made-to-stick-time-to-aim-lower.html
Kind Regards
Graeme
I think that this theory is rather symplistic. Just as the process of going through grief and loss differs from one individual to the next as does the length of time one takes to go through grief and loss, depression also is a process similar to grief and loss, but with a chemical aspect included, much like when one has a diabeties condition, its a medical as well.
I think ones values are involved more than the fact of unrealistic goals and i feel that depression is a time of the mind and body doing some evaluation time re-determining what our real values are and re-ordering these values. It is also a time to nurse ourselves through the hard knocks we have received over our lifetime.
I personally believe that sensitive people are prone to depression because there is so much insensitivity surrounding our lives. Two groups of people, the sensitive and thoughtful kind and the hardened insensitive kind who lack any consideration toward others other than themselves.
Life is a journey we are told, this journey i believe is learning how to negotiate between these two tyes of people who effect our lives and also maintain our true values. This is why i feel that self-esteem is effected in depression. It’s tough remaining to be a sensitive person and kind-hearted in a world that is often quite cruel.
I have learned to value my sensitive self and also how to deal with those who are insensitive and still retain my integrity. I now am not afraid to take on the adversities i face in life and do not feel overwhemed by these but rather joyfully take it on in my life’s journey and dare to be my sensitive self.
Yours sincerely
Lynette
Hi,
My mum sent me the link the other day because im going through a tough time now.This last depressive eposide has come from a vision I had of not being able to live a more meaningful life.In all areas of my life.I feel i have been growing into a more mature person, happy with myself and thinking rationally and keeping positive often. But this last thought seemed to strike some emotional cord so deep.First the continuos anxiety and then severe depression. I have been fighting this illness for the last 2 years since I stopped a long dependent period of illicit drugs.I didnt really have any goals as such, but im trying to work my way back into some sort of happy challenging life??
I’ve always been somewhat prone to depression but I have a high level of energy which compensated for it. But in the past few months I’ve had some pretty hard times at work and I find my depression is getting deeper. Much of it is the realization that at 53 any hopes of promoting within my job is pretty much out of the picture as management is looking for younger people to promote. It makes sense since I’m within 10 years of retirement if I follow the typical pattern in my place of employment. Letting this go is tough as I sort of flounder with no motivation or goals. Whats the answer? I won’t be able to retire with the economy the way it is but I also have nowhere to go and I feel pretty stuck.
Hi Rita,
You raise a point that I can so easily relate to. Not so long back I measured my worth according to where I was on the corporate ladder. I think that when you are on that treadmill you think that is the only world there is. What I have have discovered since leaving that environment is that there is many many other worlds out there that you don’t encounter when you are meeting the same people every day.
My advice would be to do some reflection on what are the things that you have been passionate about in the past. What are your drivers? What are your values?
There are some quite good tools out there to help with that process. An excellent one has been put together by Martin Seligman from the school of positive pychology - he wrote the book Authentic Happiness - and at http://www.authentichappiness.org there is a tool which allows you to assess your character strengths. I think it is called a VIA Character strengths assessment. It’s free and it allows you to understand your top 5 character strengths. Seligman says with research to back it up, that the most fulfilled people are those that use there top character strengths on a regualar basis.
For career insight there is a very good tool at http://www.assessment.com called a MAP - Motivated Abilities Profile - this takes you through some questions and then reveals the top skills you are inherently motivated to use. It then tells you which vocations allow you to use those skills. Again there is a free version of this but I reckon the best option is one for about $US40 that gives a lot more detail and practical advice.
With regard to your current situation - you don’t need to change overnight - but if you start doing some of this reflection - with the help of a career coach you can then start plotting a new path at a time that suits you.
I know I’ve never been happier or more fulfilled than I am now and I think that potential is there for everyone. The world is not as you know it now - you’ve only seen one facet of the diamond. Maybe it’s time for another.
Kind Regards
Graeme
Hi Graeme
I think you may be on to something… I know for me, I breakdown when I can least afford to (not financially). When I put myself under pressure, I crumble. I recently accepted a high power position in a bank and after only a few months, I crumbled.
I had such aspirations about this new position and my coping skills that I signed a building contract on a half million dollar home. Then I started to worry, the self doubt crept in and that was it. I had my biggest crash yet. After 6 months I am not still not working and don’t know when I will be.
Maybe some people seem to have a lower breaking point because they have higher expectations.
Now, how can I feel good about letting those high expectations go? :0
Hi Graeme,
I’m actually writing to you about my experience with my mother who recently attempted suicide. She stated one of reasons as the fear of aging (she’s 70). She has always been very obsessed with her looks and spends a large amount of money on cosmetic surgery. I guess for her, looking young is getting to be an unrealistic goal.
My question is, how, when a person’s whole identity is caught up with being or looking a certain way, and that is no longer achievable, can you, as a support person or carer, get the person to see that it is their way of viewing themselves that is not realistic?
This has been devastating to us, more so as the motivation did not seem to be borne out of depression but of self obsession.
Hi Kirsten,
What a distressing situation you find yourself in. I think it would help for your mother to see a professional counsellor if she is willing. I’m not sure where you are based, but if you are in Australia you may like to check out http://www.GoodTherapy.com.au to help identify someone appropriate.
There is a beautiful book (and movie) called “Tuesdays with Morrie” which is about a journalist visiting an old man who is approaching death on what are the truly important things in life. Looks are always transitory. It may be worth considering watching the DVD with her to see if it leads to any discussion.
Good luck and kind regards
Graeme